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Thread: My first dose decrease since Armour treatment.

  1. #8
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    David's Avatar

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    Nov 2008

    Re: My first dose decrease since Armour treatment.

    This is only my view from what I have read. So don't assume that I am correct. I accept I could have it all wrong.

    My understanding is that T4 is a reservoir that can be stored and used when required. T3 is for more immediate use. It's this that does worry me when I see people wanting to increase their T3 and don't worry too much about their T4. If T3 is too high as it's for more immediate use you can quickly go over and be hyper and then run out.

    If your body runs out of T3 and there becomes an urgent need for more due to lifes little stresses, then if T4 is insufficient there will be a delay in production by the time the piturity gland has been stimulated and produced TSH and that has stimulated the thyroid and the thyroid produces T4 and T3. The body probably can't wait that long. So it seems to me you must have a balance of T4 and T3.

    T1 and T2 may very well be errors in the manufacture of T4.

    Hope this makes sense of my understanding.


  2. #9
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    ThyroidHealthJim's Avatar

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    Re: My first dose decrease since Armour treatment.

    It does make sense David and I agree with you.
    T4 being a reserve hormone is how I describe it in info I've put out but it does have a purpose at the tissue level just as T3 does but only at about 20% compared to it according to some medical sources. As I mention above, I personally want my T3 to be within normal values but I feel less well if mine gets to mid range and especially below mid range.
    It concerned me, when I was first blood restested on Armour in early 2004, seeing the lowish T4, in fact my T3 can be at mid range and T4 will actually be flagged sightly low. I was posting on a MedHelp Thyroid Forum back then and Board Certified Endo Mark Lupo began answering questions there at one point, so I asked him about T4 being low and he said it was common in Armour patients. Also since then I've corresponded with and seen the posts of 100s of other Armour patients who report that their T4 stays low-ish on Armour even with T3 at good range for them. It made me wonder at times if Armour doesn't have the correct ratio of T4 to T3 for humans. It apparently does however because they went through rigorous scrutiny via a number of regulation groups including the USP, the FDA. The T4 to T3 ratio of Armour and other desiccated T4/T3 brands is about 4 to 1 (4 times higher in T4). Armour at times over the years has had to recall dose batches that were inconsistent but has happened less frequently over the past several years. The same happened with synthetic T4 brands, Synthroid having recalls of inconsistent dose batches at times, including a large scale one in 1989 and levothyroxine/levoxyl having a large recall in 2002.
    Some groups say that desiccated T4/T3 drugs like Armour should have a ratio of more T4 in it that is more like 10 to 1 but the Mgf'er-Forest has backing by their research reps stating the 4 to 1 to be the most correct. It is an interesting subject and at times I waiver in my own belief on the subject because I feel at times more T4 should be added to Armour with the Armour dose reduced in doing so. I remember reading that Mary Shomon was taking a regimen like this years ago and was part of what inspired by belief that more T4 is needed than what is supplied by Armour alone.
    It's a very good point you bring up David and one difficult to arrive at absolutes on. The UK groups TPA-UK/Thyroid Patient Avocacy and the British Thyroid Association have gone back and forth on this issue. Here's a link that shows one of these> ... to_BTA.php .
    I feel in the US and UK, there is a long way still to go yet in more research and trials needed on these areas for the sake of patients (not always the first consideration) so that there are more definitive answers on these issues. It's simlar to how there was and is such issue in regard to TSH blood testing to both diagnose and treat hypothyroidism. There are still top qualified Endos and MDs who believe anything below 2.0 is a risky treatment TSH level while others believe a 1.0 should be the target goal for TSH suppression with a thyroid dose.
    The unfortunate thing is that it leaves patients with the need to try different trials of dosing until they find what makes them feel well and is better to have a doctor behind those trials if at all possible. I'm thankful mine is behind me and her main concern is the same as mine, that I stay within normal values on T4 and T3 regardless of the trial of T4 or T3 med I take. My TSH is not accurate, doesn't accurately reflect my thyroid hormones and was determined early on, so thankfully in my case I'm not tied down to TSH even though in most patients it does reflect accurately. This type scenario and others are what make it difficult for even the most reputable med groups to pin areas of thyroid disease treatments down to exacts (unfortunate but true) and is largely due to patient-individuality. There are too many variables that cause patients to have different results from same trials like the TSH issue for example and whether a patient has a goiterous or non-goiterous condition, cold nodules, hot nodules, comorbid ME/CFS or other disease processes that change reliability of TSH in these patients etc... I've said many times that medical treatment development by medical research groups is a job I would not want to have! It has mountains of difficulty involved with it.
    WOW, here again I rambled off but that's the search bug in me and this is an area that has always held a lot of interest for me. David for adding-to and inspiring more discussion on this and other threads on these subjects!
    (Avatar pic is of me & wife, 2008)

  3. #10
    Samuel's Avatar
    Hmm thats very good it decreased after the treatment and its very good sign and it really works for u and and would be really beneficial for u while in the treatment.......



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